Lecture 1969 Castaneda, UCLA
YouTube Voice Transcription
00:02 I suppose you some of you have read that
00:07 book that written so I thought perhaps I
00:12 should give you a background the things
00:15 that I did not include in the book
00:17 perhaps that would be a good way to
00:18 start
00:19 I have critics that they have you know
00:25 criticized me for not including the
00:28 cultural milieu in which this thing took
00:32 place and I didn't do I didn't do that
00:35 because I was not sure where to place it
00:40 the the person with whom I work is the
00:44 Yaqui Indian is live in northwestern
00:48 Mexico they are a very peculiar group of
00:53 people there are 90,000 of them today
00:57 and they have lived where they are today
00:59 since before the Spaniards came to the
01:03 new world the irony I think was around
01:11 17 18 that they voluntarily know 1680
01:17 around 1680 they voluntarily allowed the
01:23 missionaries to come to Sonora
01:27 involuntarily under when Mission ization
01:30 listen and they kept the Spanish
01:33 missionaries for 80 years in them one
01:36 day they burned the churches and kill
01:40 them off
01:42 and ever since that time they've been on
01:45 their own made a very strange they're
01:49 making a very strange concussion of the
01:54 Catholicism of the time 1600 and
01:59 whatever was ancestral to them in today
02:03 is this nearly an impossibility to
02:06 untangle that to disentangle that that's
02:10 incredible process oh that's the real
02:13 result but at any rate they involve
02:16 themselves after they were the
02:18 missionary expelled in a very what would
02:23 be yard word they say a total war
02:29 against the Western man and they have
02:34 had 100 years for instance solid warfare
02:41 after Mexico gained its independence
02:43 they inheritant the yaki problem and
02:48 they cope with it finally and around the
02:50 turn of the century by coming moving is
02:55 in full force they are Mexican forces in
02:57 taking the total yaki population and
03:02 putting them in trains and boats and
03:05 shipping them outside of Sonora this
03:10 ship to southern Mexico to the state so
03:13 Yucatan in Oaxaca and there are crews
03:16 don't one was very young at that time
03:20 the ones they the man I worked with the
03:22 shaman worthy he was very young at that
03:24 time as a child and he was caught in
03:27 this mishmash in here his father were
03:33 shipped shipped to Veracruz and then
03:37 later he moved to Oaxaca so it's very
03:40 young like they are I feel today that if
03:47 I want to place this shamanistic
03:49 tradition and the cultural milieu I
03:52 would have to make game begin he saw
03:56 I will have to mix whatever its yaki in
04:02 something in central Mexico the one
04:07 learned his tradition or why we want our
04:10 college tradition he learned his
04:11 knowledge of sorcery in Oaxaca
04:14 therefore he goes every year to Oaxaca
04:17 in order to collect some illusional
04:19 genic mushrooms they are very important
04:23 in elucidating his knowledge those those
04:26 marshes do not grown in Sonora
04:29 they grow exclusively in Oaxaca in the
04:31 whole tradition of mushroom the Martian
04:33 cold comes from that area the the huge
04:39 source of the cactus look before our
04:43 william sings they only come in our
04:45 theory which grows in the northern part
04:49 Mexico and it's my belief that don't
04:52 wanna snake again like taking perhaps
04:56 the yaki format or syncretism since the
05:00 act is already I made this thing credit
05:04 process amalgamating Catholicism
05:07 whatever it was ancestor to them perhaps
05:09 there is a facility for them at a level
05:13 to intake from different areas it make a
05:18 conglomerate it perhaps his knowledge is
05:22 it could be classified as belonging in
05:26 essence to the Yaquis it's the yuckiest
05:29 spirit the Yaquis like I was saying in
05:33 crafts that you continue this there they
05:35 are warriors in another turn of the
05:40 century they were defeated by the
05:42 Mexican forces in in in actual battles
05:47 and after they lost the battles then
05:50 they were the word disintegrated as a
05:52 nation they stay in central Mexico for
05:56 for forty years in then other are they
06:01 after the war your Mexico is a sort of a
06:06 herald democracy
06:08 Latins blood nations in the what was
06:14 very critical of time after the war was
06:17 what happened in Europe
06:19 Hitler moving populations are seen
06:22 displacing them and then all of a sudden
06:25 the Mexicans realized that they have
06:27 done the same thing with the Yaquis so
06:30 they brought him back again to Sonora
06:33 they rounded up the in him back to this
06:37 reservation sort of this a large area
06:41 that they constructed as a reservation
06:43 in they have maintained you see the the
06:53 original land the Mexican allowed them
06:56 to come back again to the core or the
06:59 ancestral land it is composed of eight
07:02 towns and they have but by the time you
07:07 see the Yaquis will run 40 years of
07:09 Mexicans have encroached on the land
07:11 they have subdivided it it was open for
07:17 colonization or something like that in
07:19 that now that you have the problem you
07:21 see of Mexican populations living next
07:24 to two yaki population ray they do not
07:27 mix and the Yankees are very they say
07:33 famous for the sense of aloofness it's
07:35 very hard to get to them we had to know
07:38 them very hard to work with them
07:40 it's especially hard for me because
07:44 although I come from Latin America you
07:46 know I'm I look like a Mexican to them
07:49 I'm a Mexican in the column youri's it's
07:52 a very respective term terribly it's a
07:56 terrible word and it's very difficult
07:59 for me to get it will be easier for an
08:03 American anthropologist for a part of or
08:07 of a stocks of an anglo-saxon advice to
08:09 come to the yaki lon Daniel is for me
08:12 for me it's nearly an impossibility in
08:15 the only way that I have have waves
08:17 enter into it is through the auspices
08:20 one in his son and they have weight
08:24 tolerate me they don't know what I'm
08:26 doing anyways you know they they have
08:29 this weird conception that I may be a
08:32 spy from an American mining company
08:38 [Music]
08:40 and the funny thing is that that mining
08:42 companies has been trying to get into
08:45 Sonora to to explore the copper ores or
08:49 some of the yucky mountains us since
08:52 1947 the thing that he at least came
08:54 back and uh the strange story is that
08:58 there's no mining company that I ever
09:00 tried to explore the ores it's just an
09:03 illusion
09:03 yucky mine but anyway I'm the spire that
09:07 imaginary company so the young they
09:12 tolerate me in some way no they did by
09:18 now I think I don't bother them too much
09:20 but it's it's terribly hard to to get to
09:24 know Rhea keys and I think it's the
09:27 result the the reason for it is they're
09:30 endemic warfare against the Western man
09:35 but that's the yuckiest spirit there's
09:38 there are truly warriors and in not
09:43 soldiers because they are not
09:45 disciplined in that sense it's another
09:47 concept in what I have been trying to do
09:51 then with a book that I published in the
09:55 whole work that I done is trying to get
09:59 into the cognitive system first of all I
10:04 don't want because that was the person
10:05 I've worked with NCE by doing that I
10:09 were being able to determine I see a
10:13 cognitive map or what is the yuckiest
10:17 spirit whatever the one talks about as
10:20 the spirit a warrior spirit but I did
10:25 not have that a in mind when I went to
10:29 do my fieldwork this is a post facto
10:33 upon reconsidering finishing my
10:35 fieldwork and sitting on my desk I have
10:38 reconsider the whole process and I have
10:42 said this is a very good thing if I if I
10:45 would try to look for a cognitive map
10:47 it's a totally a post facto rationale
10:51 what happened to me in the field is
10:54 something else I went to my interest in
11:00 no one is a was a fourth Twitter's
11:02 affair I was interested in collecting
11:05 medicinal plants when I was an undergrad
11:08 I was an undergraduate student and I
11:12 conceived then a way to move in the
11:14 ladder you see of all the scholarship is
11:17 to publish 40 and I feel that the
11:21 easiest way to get something publishable
11:23 will be to collect medicinal plants well
11:32 you got to record the name procure
11:35 you'll dry especially have it
11:37 identifying the Botanical Garden and
11:40 write whatever they say about it
11:47 I thought I was a very clever young that
11:53 was my interest in but I didn't know any
11:55 Indians second problem I knew a guy who
12:00 know Indians dog which let's say in that
12:07 way so I I had a friend very good friend
12:11 of mine who at that time in he claimed
12:17 you know that he knew a great deal of
12:19 Armenians and plants so I went a payment
12:22 listen one summer and I stay with her
12:24 for a long time and I collect the AE of
12:28 his plants of course in his description
12:31 then he says you could check this with
12:33 any Indian around here did I tell you
12:36 whatever I'm telling you is this that's
12:38 what they do with him they day he said
12:41 to me at that time there is power
12:43 running all for me some crony that lives
12:46 somewhere around there there knows the
12:48 great deal about a yachty and perhaps
12:52 you know go talk to him maybe we should
12:53 go and look him up so we drove around in
12:56 Alaska directions and then mislead us
12:59 deliberately and we wound up in some
13:02 hills are there no man's land but the
13:05 times how about time to go home for me
13:08 so I gave it up in others nicest look
13:10 for this old for me that knew a great
13:12 deal about the early in the other so I
13:15 was about to take the bus to go home
13:18 when this old man walked into the
13:21 Greyhound Depot this friend of mine says
13:28 he went and talked to him this friend of
13:31 mine had this would you mean have this
13:33 strange relation he pretends to speak
13:37 Spanish he says glossolalia if he just
13:40 talks and pumps
13:44 and then the over a period here's you
13:46 know I first was the joke you know like
13:49 I tagged along you know telling you know
13:51 answering him in Spanish when he's just
13:53 you know you mean this
13:56 Jackson others told me in thanks to me
13:59 pretending there was a Spanish so
14:01 somebody else could hear anything that
14:03 he speaks in Spanish so I first was a
14:06 job with a he believed that he speaks
14:08 Spanish it has a really reliever and
14:13 he's embarrassed me to know him nothing
14:15 sometimes he gives me a no were people
14:18 are you know important people perhaps
14:21 that I I don't want to fool around with
14:23 him he speaks to me in Spanish or
14:26 enemies and in that day he give me that
14:29 he made it he never sees his bitch she
14:33 went and talked to this old man phone in
14:35 Spanish laughs I was listening there you
14:42 know then he was pretty funny when he
14:45 says preposterous he was making up words
14:48 then it isn't he left me he he talked to
14:52 him to eat reports he talked to the only
14:54 yelling in Spanish he turn around yeah
14:56 yeah I was standing with his old man if
14:59 he was laughing you know very funny
15:01 like I know that he had a nice sense of
15:05 humor
15:08 and then I made my pitch my interpreter
15:13 policy speech by that point I I decided
15:17 that perhaps that was the man I could
15:19 turn into a key informant how do you
15:24 perceive nothing else even experience so
15:26 I decided that the only way to do would
15:28 be to sell myself to him and tell him
15:31 that I knew a great deal about the Yuri
15:33 and I told her that says listen sis I
15:36 know all there is to know about the IOT
15:39 perhaps the big you know convenient for
15:41 you
15:42 we haven't Aegis to you with you you
15:44 talk to me then the guy he loves look at
15:49 me he just look at me and laugh but
15:53 there was something very peculiar about
15:54 it already look now it's not that was
15:58 quite exciting I thought please you know
16:00 I'm on a loop persistent perhaps because
16:03 I'm sure you either crash or you learn
16:07 very funny mechanics so I'm very
16:11 persistent and I'm I'm not dissuaded too
16:15 easily you have to cover me on the hint
16:18 nice way but this guy stopped me by
16:22 looking at me that was weird
16:27 there was something wrong there I mean I
16:30 feel like recording my brother my body
16:34 recorded something wrong very weird
16:39 yeah I'm not given to well I'm not a
16:41 mystic man at all
16:43 very pragmatic I proceeded in a specific
16:47 ways you know I'm not a scared and
16:49 easily but how could this guy you stop
16:52 me just looking now something straight
16:55 you lady
16:56 he said yes perhaps you come and see me
16:58 sometime who talk my house and then he
17:02 then again this son says oh there's my
17:04 bus you just got out there's no bus out
17:07 there
17:11 so I came back to see him because he
17:15 interesting personally there was an
17:19 interested person a mystic interest then
17:22 I came back in him six months later I
17:24 came back here and moved from Arizona to
17:29 Sonora you know I found them and we got
17:32 to talk it was very minimal they a mean
17:35 woman there's something very peculiar
17:39 sensation of control about him that I
17:42 noticed at that time it's very nice to
17:46 be around one I don't know what it is
17:50 but he makes me feel complete very nice
17:55 concise there's no loose tennis
17:58 there's no Freddy no it's like they shoe
18:01 unnecessary excitation here he's capable
18:04 of exerting himself dramatically to a
18:08 fantastic point which is the opposite of
18:11 what I find in my time
18:13 Oh what I am I free I've been described
18:17 by a friend of mine as being as nervous
18:19 as the cockroach I'm very nervous the
18:23 yet there's no conciseness about me
18:26 perhaps that's the reason why I like
18:28 don't one I like stature and I came to
18:31 see him over and over for a pair of a
18:35 year and I had development in this year
18:39 this singsong this is Logan every time I
18:43 saw him I said when are you gonna teach
18:45 me about the haunting he laughs you know
18:48 discs are my question until one day he
18:51 took me up and that was the beginning
18:55 for this strange thing that was
18:59 apprenticeship apprenticeship to his
19:04 knowledge or I became an apprentice
19:06 not-not-not why though his apprentice I
19:10 hear but it's an apprenticeship to a
19:12 system to a way of being in the
19:18 after four years I would do from him
19:22 because they became threatening to to
19:28 anguishing and they are perhaps the ones
19:33 who are read this book target don't one
19:36 used three Allison oh Jenny planets in
19:40 order to teach his knowledge now he used
19:45 a cactus before when it was called
19:49 peyote jimsonweed is one of the tulip
19:52 plants and those are news magellanic
19:54 margins one of the species one of
19:57 fourteen species of a loose energetic
19:59 margins are grown and central Mexico
20:01 today genus is the last of the now what
20:08 they what the reason for my withdrawal
20:12 as I see it today was very simple we
20:18 have a picture of the world that has
20:21 been given to us to press this for
20:24 socialization and then we have a
20:27 preconception already ingrained in us of
20:31 what the world is like and we call that
20:35 reality the reality of everyday life
20:37 it's the world taken for granted that we
20:41 assume it's bear in what's more we
20:46 assumed that we could give ourselves
20:48 consensus on the elements to that world
20:52 from now to the day we die and I would
20:55 like for instance taking this tube to an
20:58 extreme I don't need anybody anymore to
21:01 be a person a social entity appeal by
21:04 myself
21:05 and I have myself in the idea of the
21:10 group you your absolutely I'm all by
21:13 myself in the universe in the world
21:14 Hawaii is the idea of you investors that
21:19 allegedly makes a group meaning I could
21:24 give my cell phone sensors because I
21:26 have already
21:27 learn all the consensus that came from
21:30 you the group at one time tonight
21:34 prosody store socials is not growing up
21:36 you know this time I'm an adult I
21:40 assumed that I need nobody else to tell
21:42 me what is real so the the the force of
21:48 the world taken for granted this is
21:51 tremendous
21:52 we never download that however under
21:56 under very precarious time sometimes
21:59 rust circumstances precarious to
22:01 preserve it we get two dollars in that
22:05 is a blast what happened to me was
22:11 precisely that the one had a steer me he
22:16 had guided me to this edge and they are
22:19 the he push me and I won't know I went
22:21 all the way and I began to down I began
22:26 to let's say to lose the certainty that
22:31 the way the world of everyday life is
22:34 something I could have found for in that
22:38 courses madness that's really sheer
22:41 insanity and before I lost my mind I
22:44 thought I will quit the apprenticeship
22:51 voluntarily and I never came to see them
22:54 one anymore
22:55 and after that I had timed them to sit
22:59 around him in in rehash my notes in
23:03 arrange them in quote the arrangement is
23:07 not mine they arranged everything Harold
23:10 Lee I presume it is I wish it would be
23:12 at least the inherent order of some
23:16 cognitive units which guided the one in
23:21 order to present his system as a
23:23 coherent unit in them
23:28 I saw the one later after I had I didn't
23:35 see him for nearly three years
23:36 yeah the book was published I pay him a
23:39 visit
23:40 because I wanted to show him the book
23:42 because I thought I was the right one
23:44 so I'm like I went to central Mexico I
23:47 didn't like we have a way to let him
23:50 know that I won't let him know that I
23:52 was coming to see him but I did I found
23:55 them in he wasn't in this town in
23:59 central Mexico in I took the book and I
24:01 show it to him and look at it he like
24:03 flip the pages I got a surge of prizes
24:07 if I want you to have it you know what
24:12 we do with paper Mexico ever since that
24:26 that that time you see ie I have about
24:30 15 on that clock perhaps you know my
24:34 fear for losing my mind was a little bit
24:37 a little bit of an exaggeration in the
24:42 casino under under certain circumstance
24:44 knowing who tend to exaggerate our
24:46 importance dramatically in the duck was
24:50 one of the occasions for me I felt you
24:54 know I was losing something terribly
24:55 important my mind but later on see with
25:04 three years in between I change many of
25:09 my views so I have come back again you
25:13 know to see them one to visit not again
25:15 love not to participate of his in his
25:18 apprenticeship but rather to him to to
25:22 talk to him but it's very difficult to
25:25 talk to her to a sorceress you're
25:27 playing you're playing with fire so he
25:29 hoped median into to following his his
25:34 wait Oh be look for me I could say
25:41 perhaps that what's enticing about him
25:44 is that his view or the world it's very
25:48 exciting this this is so new it so I
25:51 feel that so so much more functional
25:54 perhaps more rational than mine and in
25:59 the end the lapse of time between when I
26:01 withdrew from this completely ruin their
26:03 friendship until Donna went back seaming
26:05 it I drew a little tired or rehashing
26:09 myself beginner because that's what I'm
26:11 condemned to do even left to my own
26:15 devices I rehash my meaning over and
26:19 over and I come up with sin with the
26:21 same result
26:22 I'm looking at myself and I'm very
26:25 boring tired looking up
26:33 that's one of the very key factors at
26:35 this point why I went back to see to see
26:39 the money and he hooked me with a wooden
26:45 abstract this time the first time you
26:47 know there was I had no idea of what he
26:49 was doing this time I will fully go
26:52 willingly I have let him guide me he is
26:56 interested at this point forming or
26:58 teaching me the difference between
27:01 looking at the world and seeing he makes
27:06 a semantic difference between looking
27:08 the same
27:11 now his interest is as I see it in
27:17 giving me a series of memories of Colin
27:24 Blanc
27:26 now when he says for instance now one or
27:29 that a sorcerer could turn into a crawl
27:33 he's given me a unit of meaning turning
27:37 into a crow for which I have no
27:40 equivalent and his teachings or sis
27:45 unfortunately to acquire and I said to
27:48 acquire a series of memories of turning
27:53 into a crow in the bridge to put its pre
27:59 suppose that on a given moment my brain
28:03 is going to assemble all those units in
28:06 turning into what in the
28:10 phenomenological jargon would be
28:12 followed a gloss example I say to you
28:17 tree
28:19 in apparently I make sense however you
28:24 ask me what I mean by a tree I'll spend
28:28 the rest of my life trying to figure out
28:29 what I mean by a tree in order to give
28:32 you is the series of historical facts
28:36 about a tree you start the Fox that I
28:38 have learned as I grew up I could give
28:41 you they are not only of a tree that the
28:44 works naman but the assumption is that I
28:47 have never apprehended the phenomena
28:51 tree it may be there but it looks that
28:55 has been here because I am interpreting
28:58 it and I'm interpreting the phenomena
29:00 tree through a set of precise
29:04 pre-ordained mechanics preordained units
29:09 I've been learning to having thought to
29:13 perceive tree in at this point my
29:17 assumption is that I had never seen it
29:19 perhaps I've seen tree once twice but I
29:23 could tell you in all sincerity that I
29:25 have never seen elephant because when
29:29 did I see an elephant when I was we see
29:31 two years old six months old
29:33 never the gloss elephant
29:37 has come to me fully formed you what
29:41 processes I could say elephant it really
29:44 makes sense we really don't know that we
29:49 are now being concerned with that yet
29:50 the source of fiber we begin we do not
29:53 like the the gloss elephant to me it's
29:57 in addition not the gloss tree because
30:00 it's obvious that I saw trees when I was
30:03 what two days two or three days or
30:06 whatever before I learned the growth
30:09 tree I have seen the gloss room before I
30:13 became a gloss and my assumption is
30:16 there are certain time in my life I may
30:19 have walked into a room and even they
30:22 have known the utterance room but I
30:24 didn't know the total gloss room he
30:28 require a series of memories of walls
30:32 chairs floor ceiling to complete the
30:36 goals and what the one is doing as I see
30:39 it is giving me beginning the process
30:44 feast of love singing he's teaching me
30:47 the mechanics of blossom and that's a
30:50 thesis the thesis that I wanted to to
30:53 throw out feedback now my point my
30:59 crucial point is this in his effort to
31:02 teach me to see the one says the steel
31:06 consists in training your eyes of course
31:11 to the users for pollution or general
31:13 plants the aleutian Evgeny plants
31:16 allegedly give you the speed to after
31:18 him wants a fleeting world without the
31:23 hallucinogenic plant you would
31:24 degenerate your body will deteriorate
31:26 you could do it in the terminology of
31:28 the nasty name the quest of the American
31:32 Indian quest for visions you could do
31:34 that
31:35 the one took me already or ten days
31:40 to the best of it and then today so I'm
31:42 working capable seeing anything from
31:45 here it was just a horrendous experience
31:48 because I was tired fatigued and I'm
31:51 weak you see I don't have the stamina of
31:53 an Indian so I think I collapse after
31:56 the second day but the thing prolong
31:59 except for for for ten days and I found
32:03 that I suffered a tremendous loss tone I
32:06 lost weight in the first place loosing
32:10 of moisture and dishes is deleterious
32:14 there that to total health it no one
32:17 says that in the other hand in the user
32:19 gonna lose no genic planet you suffer no
32:21 deterioration but you have to know what
32:24 you're looking for like to use an
32:27 emotional genic plan for enlightenment
32:30 it's absurd or one terms to use it for
32:34 kicks
32:35 applying to yourself because that's
32:38 holding to you that is eerie irreparable
32:40 and he will never venture he to anything
32:46 laugh when I asked him in a war room he
32:48 is feeling about taking LSD he'd like
32:52 you know give him something or that I
32:54 have procured so he watching his melon
32:57 saloon he said terrorists take it away
32:59 he didn't want anything to do with it
33:02 because he had no no rationale for it he
33:05 didn't have direction for it
33:08 in the other hand his plans he proceeded
33:11 to have a very exact Direction exact
33:14 procedures that he has commanded he if
33:17 he's at home he's insane so the the
33:20 neighborhood hallucinogenic plant is
33:21 essential in seeing because it allows
33:25 you the speed to apprehend this fleeting
33:28 world but what is this meaning world
33:30 what was he talking about I say that he
33:35 is talking about a process or rege love
33:39 singing he's teaching me to gloss the
33:42 same way my progenitors and my fellow
33:45 men taught me as a child the ordinary
33:49 glossners suppose there is the name
33:52 number of losses or like the glossary
33:55 you see the the name through the number
33:58 of Greek glosses that we use or is the
34:02 pattern of gloucester that we have
34:05 learned and then we apply it to
34:07 everything we perceive either way but
34:12 don't want what he's doing now as I say
34:15 as a social scientist I think that he's
34:19 teaching me to reward but he are
34:21 learning the one who see he is alluding
34:25 that there is possible to see an
34:27 ultimate reality in that of course we
34:31 know it cannot be true at least the
34:35 social scientists no no that's a bank
34:39 now there is not more reality in it I
34:43 don't know at this at this moment
34:46 probably the end result of it all up
34:50 tables and I'm going to try to apprehend
34:54 what he called the fleeting world and
34:57 see that perhaps or find out whether it
35:01 is really a process of requesting I I
35:03 hope that I'll be sober enough to
35:06 realize that it's the process of
35:08 ignoring well if there is the
35:11 possibility of seeing or quote seen or
35:15 apprehending in irreducible reality I'll
35:20 live a vicars time in his life you know
35:24 attempted to to to resolve the problem
35:28 and he found us nothing big he talked
35:31 about language with the trappings of
35:33 natural language then I think Vicarstown
35:35 is dilemma was that he arrived to an
35:39 edge that it wasn't impossible
35:43 you have the phenomenon there that you
35:46 want to describe is the phenomena in the
35:50 description two things or is the
35:54 description part of the phenomena for it
35:57 as a social scientist
35:59 as an anthropologist I'm going to study
36:01 primitive cultures but what what can you
36:05 say about my description in my
36:07 conclusions about the primitive culture
36:10 and trying to study is it part of the
36:13 primitive culture or instead it
36:15 phenomena in yourself vicar Stein there
36:18 is no problem
36:19 he fell to see the trap is no language
36:22 he he called a natural language are
36:24 supposed to philosophical syntax there
36:28 was a time in which the idea was that
36:31 perhaps we could develop a language
36:33 which was the exact a language of
36:35 philosophers and we will be able to
36:38 agree without doubt about what we're
36:41 talking about in terms of philosophizing
36:44 and that seems to be an impossibility
36:47 the question is that we use language and
36:50 the meaning of languages arbitrarily so
36:54 we are filled with words in the
36:59 Christine's terms and there is nothing
37:02 in here as the vocalizations so is that
37:06 all I am just worse Accord to Vicarstown
37:09 got or we are worse worse worse worse
37:13 and he saw no possibility of breaking
37:16 flipping through this barrier or natural
37:20 language however don't worry
37:22 very strange this being coming from the
37:26 outside you see we should tend to
37:28 believe that I see that only as the
37:30 Europeans are capable Russian of thought
37:33 we're the only ones who think the rest
37:36 of them are greasy Indian nothing but we
37:41 are not consider them very seriously and
37:45 it's a very strange development I have I
37:50 have read in fact you know I haven't
37:52 finish this manuscript on singing and I
37:56 like to start by coding in Equus etre
38:00 Spanish sequences that came to the New
38:02 World
38:03 in 1572 the here on
38:06 fantastic triticeae in how to
38:08 exterminate idolatry and he says that
38:12 the American Indians they did they claim
38:16 to have powers to divine and with a of
38:21 something diabolic seeds they really
38:23 succeeded in divining things he said if
38:26 to his knowledge decides three cases in
38:29 which he really is divination power and
38:32 then he concludes with a parenthetical
38:34 statement he says however the Lord Jesus
38:37 Christ is missing in this system and I
38:40 must conclude that is the work of the
38:42 devil
38:42 it must be exterminated he throws out of
38:44 the window but oddly enough we do the
38:48 same thing today we are scientific
38:51 methods in the idea of a trivial
38:54 Marvel's equivalent to how many angels
38:57 sit in the head of a pin should we throw
39:01 now because there are meanings in did by
39:04 some process unknown to me we learn
39:06 everything that has been done by non
39:09 Europeans in the realm of the trivial
39:12 models and how they go like what the
39:15 American Indian has done
39:17 we don't take seriously not really doing
39:19 an oddity but not that serious of color
39:22 lot of seriousness who serve there's no
39:25 biggest time never in our my proposition
39:29 was that perhaps maybe we should attempt
39:32 to take the series like what the one is
39:36 Tolkien to me as a man you see the the
39:41 crux of the matter is that I am a man
39:43 who's going to die I cannot avoid that
39:47 before my very short period of
39:51 consciousness it's terribly important to
39:55 me
39:55 and as a man who's gonna die this one is
39:59 pose it to me is monumental because
40:02 perhaps to give me the opportunity of
40:04 breaking the barriers or not
40:07 language the one that I have been
40:11 criticized for this book that written it
40:15 says that it's hardly believable that
40:18 are that are that media would speak
40:20 loudly perhaps me I mean did you really
40:26 say that that was the question
40:28 and I said he he said that it's very
40:32 simple the one deals with an area he
40:37 called C an area of ambiguity from the
40:41 standpoint of natural language in in
40:44 that area of ambiguity there are no
40:47 glosses that he could use to describe or
40:51 to analyze if there are no glosses at
40:54 his disposal he has to make use of
40:57 metaphor than for art in order to come
41:01 they need in the world he speaks
41:03 beautifully because he doesn't know what
41:05 is to do with that area because oh see
41:11 it may be that that is the crux of the
41:15 matter in in terms of all the trappings
41:18 of natural language perhaps we are right
41:20 to that area of which we are no gloss
41:23 will be able to flip the coin bypass the
41:30 in fact that supposedly has finished all
41:33 the Philosopher's because they all
41:35 arrive to the same vicious circle
41:38 some of them are wise post wise not to
41:41 say let's stop here and let's just
41:44 consider our games in Santa Ana cause
41:47 that he says I know that a column tune
41:49 is right because of animal faith it does
41:53 the end of it but he doesn't wanna go
41:56 beyond that because he knows that he
41:58 will be beginning you know an additional
41:59 circle going around around without any
42:02 solution and I say that that stems from
42:05 the fact that he for all of us we are
42:08 rehashing glosses that we know so very
42:12 well maybe aside time to see quote or to
42:18 envision life
42:20 the point of view of an alien culture
42:22 that has given us a solution to just
42:25 non-european perhaps the one has given
42:28 me a series of shamanistic glosses or
42:32 maybe not maybe for his teaching
42:35 due to the gloss so that's the thesis
42:41 that I wanted to propose to you for your
42:43 examination you see what you say about
42:47 now you ask me some questions you to
43:14 retask losses or perhaps get you to a
43:17 point but you don't have to make losses
43:20 you just have an experience and you
43:22 characterize this as more exciting and
43:25 perhaps more rational than your own yes
43:28 now did he teach you anything that is
43:31 did in fact you said that you went away
43:33 from it even though it was more exciting
43:35 and more rational yeah but have you
43:37 learned to experience things no no no no
43:42 I'm what you know I do what I would like
43:44 to I would like to be see they had a
43:48 certain level the power of natural
43:50 language of soul it's so experienced
43:56 he presumably has some contact with a
43:58 certainty
43:59 yeah perhaps you haven't yes maybe maybe
44:03 the trick is that you see he doesn't
44:05 have to contend with the richness of my
44:07 world my world super rich I have the
44:11 victories of the scientific method to
44:13 back me up and then in the back of my
44:16 mind like I've said it's our first day
44:18 when I get when I ride to station or
44:21 great fatigue real fatigue when my my
44:26 maze disintegrates very that was
44:30 knowledge what do i do I become very
44:33 religious but like for instance the one
44:37 who showed me in a very pragmatic
44:41 dramatic way this deity called mosquito
44:46 that inhabits the theory popular so
44:48 rather that you see through the a lovely
44:51 or that I even touch it it spreads like
44:53 this blackboard to me it should be
44:57 proper to say that I'm affiliated with
44:59 it because the D happens only yesterday
45:02 no very recently but now whenever I am
45:05 very tired I become what I call a Jesus
45:09 boy I fall to my knees now becoming
45:11 taller Catholic I confess my sins on the
45:16 works
45:17 this is friend woman in hidden a song
45:20 based on this the name of the song is
45:22 when the potatoes are hacked I am a
45:25 Jesus boy that that that's the thing you
45:31 see I cannot break away from the the
45:34 trappings of natural language maybe an
45:39 Indian has more facility
45:56 no no no no no I have not made any
46:00 relationship at all
46:01 I like I refuse to see at this point any
46:05 less because I as you come mom you know
46:09 you find if I learn a little bit if I
46:10 start comparing I lose to another and I
46:14 become they say a bias another will put
46:24 brings time yes yes I will assess you
46:30 know I think it's a like I don't know
46:32 how to I haven't done what you are
46:34 proposing there but and I would know how
46:36 bitch that attracted me the only person
46:43 who ever talked to me about your real
46:45 language is Ludacris time that's why I
46:47 like him
46:48 see that's the reason why I brought it
46:50 otherwise that wouldn't even bring it
46:53 into the picture but he's the only one
46:55 who gave me the clue the entry to this
46:57 because otherwise I had to accept that
46:59 my conclusions about my work are not
47:03 Farida phenomena there they are a side
47:07 of it and they are truth they are
47:09 truthful they could really give me let's
47:12 say the entry to understand the
47:14 phenomena but are they really are my
47:17 conclusions really given me an entry to
47:19 understand anything
47:20 I doubt at this point there was the time
47:22 in which I will defend at that point but
47:25 at this point
47:25 thanks to live with Turkish time I'm
47:28 gonna terribleness
47:30 yes
47:40 yes certainly
47:42 how's the fact talking today Allah Allah
47:45 in the West are the ones be telling me
47:47 this for years the idea that I'd have to
47:50 lose importance like the importance of
47:55 myself is intimately related in my case
47:58 that's approximately no but in my case
48:01 twining like wine like the devil you
48:05 know all my life will be whiny nothing
48:09 is right everything is rolling this kind
48:12 of anxiety attached to risk the things
48:15 that are not these now not in the best
48:17 terms for me and I think that's very
48:20 closely related to the idea the
48:24 egocentric involvement they I'm involved
48:29 with my important not only in do you say
48:32 egocentric co-ed no century now see
48:36 that's indeed the one insisted that the
48:39 the proper ways to loose importance to
48:42 lose the sense of importance and he
48:44 claims to have lost completely the sense
48:48 of importance about his ego yet he's
48:52 capable of functioning in the world he
48:56 factors in the world via another unit of
48:59 me that is truly a comprehensible to me
49:03 hold on he has attempted to explain it
49:05 to me he calls a controlled falling he
49:10 says that the only way to put involved
49:12 with his fellow men is through the means
49:14 of control falling then he told me this
49:18 in 1964 and I never never never are here
49:22 upon the idea until now
49:25 now 1969 only four five month ago I read
49:29 my notes my old notes I went back to ask
49:32 them I don't know what is control forest
49:34 and he nearly fell back
49:37 I'm so good and then you asked me about
49:40 that after so many years
49:42 well if you have never asked me he
49:45 wouldn't have matter
49:46 yes yet says I pretend I act as though
49:50 it is important in an matters he did I
49:53 know it that it doesn't matter that is
50:02 the idea
50:04 he deliberately involves himself in an
50:09 act in he actually not not in a funny
50:13 way
50:14 he actually when he retrieves fell'd act
50:16 he has no pains no anguish I do the
50:21 opposite I involve myself in the nap in
50:24 it that's my work to my satisfaction
50:26 nice it's like IHS
50:37 yes yes
50:40 that's the assumption no I see the
51:08 missile though I have work with a one
51:12 for nearly nine years now all I have I
51:16 have got are blemishes for this
51:20 methodology by the time I learned all to
51:24 see I will have the full flash method
51:27 meaning in my terms perhaps I would have
51:30 acquired all the mechanics of glossing
51:35 as a shaman just pulled away so we will
51:38 make ourselves happy or or perhaps as
51:41 there to politicians or perhaps you know
51:44 I learn what he pretends to do they
51:50 pretended well he pretends that one
51:52 could apprehend as I said this alternate
51:54 reality and once you do it everything
51:57 fits in place then the methodology will
52:00 be self-evident I don't know I have no
52:03 idea
52:08 [Music]
52:24 [Music]
52:35 my god perhaps like begin going back to
52:39 this idea of control falling I asked the
52:42 one in order to explain this I asked the
52:44 wonderful if control holy men that his
52:48 acts were the act of an actor there are
52:51 no sincerity in them he says my acts are
52:55 the acts of an actor but they are
52:56 sincere they then I said I probably love
53:00 her as well when the director sizes is
53:03 falling this is all the time who is it
53:07 what everybody really weird this is
53:11 Jimmy that you don't care whether I live
53:13 or die with a learn or not flip Jesus no
53:17 I don't care
53:19 and that really struck me you know like
53:21 that I knew bricks because I have you
53:25 know being a very European unfortunately
53:27 European I have learned to move in terms
53:30 of being liked or disliked if somebody
53:35 likes me personally I feel fine and
53:37 gorgeous if they dislike me on terror
53:40 and I believed I don't one liked me
53:43 personally
53:44 therefore I trusted him and upon
53:49 learning that he didn't really care
53:53 here this is the Koran dozen roses set
53:56 on me now I really feel really lost and
54:00 I said but why do you want to teach me
54:02 them he says I don't I don't care it's
54:06 not my doing since you were pointed out
54:08 to me by this day at the containment
54:13 aortic he says I don't know his reasons
54:16 he must have some reasons for it
54:19 therefore is it's not on his business we
54:22 know what the ones business is to
54:25 acknowledge this supernatural omen and
54:29 proceed according to his beliefs to see
54:32 that you have to transmit it but it's
54:36 not not really his will is not his
54:39 malicious and the reason why I am NOT
54:43 they say perhaps the trappings of the
54:46 European my European socialization are
54:49 my Western man socialization are so
54:52 profound that there's no way to break
54:55 them except intellectually now if I if I
54:58 knew that I'm going to spend my life in
55:00 a classroom teaching never again end up
55:04 in the desert I could say anything I
55:06 want but you see after I'll talk to you
55:10 next week I'm gonna see the one in a
55:12 beginning this map again something the
55:15 tremendum I cannot lie you see I I don't
55:18 feel like in the capacity to construct
55:20 anything on my own
55:23 and if I don't understand if I'm not
55:25 here no affinity to the day at least
55:29 he's talking about I better say that I
55:32 have no affinity to them because this is
55:35 something that is being they are not
55:37 sure for me
55:39 maybe not the questionnaire with
55:45 what you say or what you were about
55:49 other people and that they act that he's
55:52 going doing us are sort of absurd
55:56 happenings like maybe they tend to
56:00 century literature presents happening no
56:14 I think you know maybe you know maybe we
56:17 could find let's say an attempt to an
56:19 explanation in the in the mythology of
56:21 the Siberian from where the word
56:24 shamanism comes in and a legend a tunnel
56:27 syndrome of shamanism
56:29 maybe yes I'm very they have the tale
56:33 you know that a shaman goes to the
56:35 nether world before he becomes a shaman
56:37 finds the new spirit helper a spirit
56:40 helper that kills him dismembers him in
56:44 boils or eat so different processes the
56:47 flesh out of his bones
56:49 and once the bones are clean of flesh he
56:53 has temples and back and pulls the man
56:55 again into the world as a non man what
56:59 would really perhaps pertinent wouldn't
57:01 be to explain that in terms of meaning
57:03 what will happen to a sorcerer if he
57:06 rubs and legions to me if he learns to
57:11 subtract allegiance
57:13 he becomes the dehumanized person no
57:17 longer human being the brother no longer
57:20 a person no longer social entity what
57:24 makes us social entities is that we
57:26 believe that the meaning of certain
57:29 things we are a lying to me otherwise we
57:37 can function we say however the one has
57:41 no allegiance to meaning he may have an
57:45 allegiance to a super order I don't know
57:48 that I really have
57:51 my judgment would be that his
57:53 allegiances to the to the superorder the
57:55 shamanistic superorder but i have
57:59 probable in that lying he says that
58:02 that's not so that he has no one legion
58:05 and nothing nothing is more important
58:09 than anything else
58:12 ingesting nothing is more important i
58:14 say when he said that i said do you mean
58:18 that everything is worthless because
58:21 that's my cognitive reaction if nothing
58:25 is not important
58:27 something is equally important unease
58:29 awareness he says no I didn't mean words
58:31 I mean unimportant things were
58:34 unimportant because they were equal
58:37 that's only through the through the
58:40 offices of control folly he couldn't
58:43 bark himself in interaction that's the
58:47 me it's a very difficult thing I have
58:48 not really understood what he meant I
58:51 have I'm rendering as exact as possible
58:55 what he said and hoped I be able to come
58:58 up with some
59:02 what's my wife well I am subscribed by
59:07 by this astrology I say as they are
59:10 what's called its structure freak I'm a
59:13 Capricorn he says that because I
59:15 strapped your freaks weak men strong
59:19 women
59:20 [Music]
59:27 no I'm very serious because VI rginia
59:30 would like to get you see I really don't
59:40 understand how one really divest
59:45 intellectually of course I do the same
59:47 thing that you do I understand why don't
59:49 one saying he's very likely something
59:51 does they meet to me however let me
59:55 proceed them in embark myself in control
59:58 Polly and I fall flat on my face because
60:01 I cannot rub importance to things I
60:05 become passionately involved
60:32 the arm of the aren't maybe I didn't I
60:37 didn't explain it correctly - for me to
60:46 know something means that I could repeat
60:49 that at any given moment and if I want
60:54 to proceed exercising control for me I
60:56 couldn't even go to the corner I get
60:58 trapped and meaning immediately upon my
61:01 migraines cause what I cannot even
61:03 conceive sincerely I cannot conceive one
61:06 instance in which I did not find the the
61:10 instance meaningful that's what I meant
61:15 to say
61:25 Joy's
61:28 following
61:33 it's nothing like that it's arbitrary in
61:37 the sense that it follows they say the
61:40 one has already a cognitive system that
61:43 allows them to choose I don't know what
61:46 it is I no idea what what he like what
61:49 guys don't want to make a choice he says
61:51 that his guide is that he wants to take
61:55 a bath with Harvard whatever he does
62:00 whatever the choices has to be a path
62:03 with heart meaning up and not turn after
62:06 that is a mineral toward an alternative
62:08 which we could identify without
62:11 harassment to himself and then he
62:15 follows that because there's a it cannot
62:17 be it cannot lead anywhere anyways yes
62:23 yes yeah yeah
62:29 Oh
63:00 the Christmas
63:03 is it a question man
63:12 well that I cannot decide that you know
63:15 I'm already I have already learned to
63:17 understand the world in specific terms
63:20 then whenever you start losing the
63:25 certainty they are countability
63:28 for the everyday client reality you are
63:33 mad
63:34 that's what I've been told and I have to
63:37 repeat exactly well I don't know what I
63:42 don't know how you do you mean to say
63:46 that perhaps we could set up an
63:47 arbitrary rationale your if it is
63:55 madness you see from a stricter and not
64:00 the only the only level i have this is
64:02 the European level intellectually I do
64:09 emotionally I'm still I'm still in
64:11 Europe for sure Europe yes
64:19 you start out with your black policies
64:24 or Methodist preform and all of your
64:27 velocity impact and filled with these
64:31 Memphis became data hypothesis with the
64:34 course planning and you find it in
64:36 several years be not touched by the
64:37 culture or the person interviewing with
64:39 okay bye
64:40 what you're attempting to do is to sink
64:43 into it work the world view now what
64:45 happens if you succeed and utterly
64:47 sinking into his worldview to your
64:51 models well it's there approximately
65:03 perhaps perhaps if we want to be truly
65:07 scientific think of this possibility
65:09 perhaps in the evening we could knock
65:12 the system of grossing which is proper
65:17 of us the Europeans in then the system
65:20 of glossary which prefer all the culture
65:22 with stunning you see where they overlap
65:25 maybe that's the only thing that
65:27 previous this is that overlap because
65:30 I've already room icon step
65:32 preconceptions the pre judgment about
65:34 the world is set in me my grocers are
65:38 there and I'm gonna go in judge the
65:40 glosses of people alien to me you know
65:43 my own losses that's absurdity if
65:49 perhaps you pull up them you could
65:52 overlap them perhaps somehow maybe
65:55 there's a it's a way of overlapping them
65:57 in all that overlap the only thing that
66:00 could be accessible that's in us that's
66:05 the the proposition is here party no
66:07 it's an exciting a least nice and
66:10 exciting alternative in anthropology yes
66:23 maybe because I'm short and brown
66:45 I don't know a lot of features of this
66:50 man's life but I'd like to ask you a
66:52 question about it you see and he's a man
66:58 who knows something about your way of
67:00 life oh yes and he seems to not do
67:04 Africa logical research say in America
67:06 or other places because when he knows he
67:09 knows enough he's not going no she's not
67:12 a Europeans he's not interested in
67:13 assisting elected - would you like to
67:16 universalize his behavior as his tea
67:19 behave as a human being insofar as your
67:21 conceptions of human being behavior is
67:23 concerned for example one says that
67:54 you know I he says that his life is an
67:58 exercise in strategy as opposed to
68:02 mining which is an exercise and meaning
68:05 I don't watch you see my unions I know I
68:08 was there on my my life in a strategical
68:10 terms that's why you're clever a return
68:14 away I haven't even got my PhD I
68:18 download them here to me they're
68:21 complete idiocy in the sense of not
68:26 really setting up mind my world as
68:28 strategic terms for the one that's
68:30 unthinkable the one who if he would
68:33 tackle the problem of disseminating his
68:36 knowledge most he would that go from the
68:38 opponent of your various strategists not
68:41 a saint not a philosopher just a
68:45 strategy playing strike I asked him once
68:47 you who live so strategically what will
68:50 happen to you if somebody is waiting for
68:52 five year rifle with a telescopic sight
68:55 you see and I was there to ambush you
68:57 have no chance and he gave me a very
69:08 exciting unit of meaning not to be
69:11 accessible think about that because the
69:15 I am accessible I stuck my neck in
69:18 Chopin that's what we do we stand in the
69:22 way we love to be clever
69:24 no one is not accessible therefore not
69:27 to be on the road the Spanish
69:30 translation not to be not to place
69:34 yourself on the road so I support that
69:38 he he will not die I don't think he was
69:41 talking he showed me the president no
69:42 Mexico but if he does I think is a
69:45 sporting would perceive again in a
69:49 strategic manner is that because people
69:52 have strategies only
69:54 in mistakes not I know what no I then
69:57 the only question remains if the means
69:59 are instantiate with their enemies know
70:02 that people don't have ends and then
70:04 they look around yeah you are kidding me
70:06 what I know you telling me the European
70:11 Russia Nancy that's what I know what the
70:14 European it was rehashing you the same
70:16 thing I think don't one means something
70:18 entirely different but I think I'm
70:20 holding you back here please I mean I'm
70:25 his only thing was I I don't have
70:28 anything to do so if you wanna leave I
70:34 mean please bother me you want to say
70:38 you who asked me I'm yours
70:42 so yes
70:49 he would like a teacher what and I think
70:54 he won't wait - this is the in my case
70:57 is something for for three years a very
71:00 young it's a lucky chance you know I
71:05 don't think you would take it up no no
71:22 no no he doesn't know any other Jimmy no
71:27 no no he doesn't know marijuana you
71:42 no he doesn't
71:46 yes I tried to analyse and he's not
71:48 going to analyze what he has experienced
71:51 because simply I think like I said he
71:56 has no natural language to coverage so
71:59 he remains phenomena in myself
72:08 that's my calling
72:10 purity money yeah then why I would know
72:14 how to stop
72:24 I don't know yes
72:42 yes
72:46 they're all they like I have made an
72:49 acetic shaman I know over yaki channel
72:53 the man has only one arm then da and
72:57 then I know now a master tick in the
72:59 central area of Mexico who's even better
73:02 than the one he's more knowledgeable he
73:06 is thoughts of a higher order
73:09 and he may very well be the various
73:13 standing man he's 65 years old yeah they
73:23 do get the energy only meetings they are
73:25 almost the only people who are tends to
73:28 be able to meet is a whole Channel
73:30 I wonder if we shouldn't draw the
73:34 meeting to a close
73:46 [Applause]
74:02 you
